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TOPIC: How does heating affect kratom? I am finding conflicting info

How does heating affect kratom? I am finding conflicting info 1 year 3 months ago #8708

  • n2thefire
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Greetings!
I have found this forum most helpful - thanks! I am confused about how heating and/or boiling affects the effects of kratom. I am finding so much info the conflicts other info that I would appreciate any first hand experiences that anyone is willing to share here or via private message. Here is what I am finding and I am wondering your thoughts/experiences to the following. To clarify I am numbering the inquires.
1) Steeping kratom (adding boiling water to powder or leaves) for 20 minutes beings out the"aroma" or at the very least does nothing to change the make up and effects of it so it is fine to do so. True or false?
2) Boiling the leaves and/or powder in water is just fine and will not affect the effects of kratom. true or false.
3)Heating kratom in any fashion will lessen the desired effects. True or False
4) Do not boil kratom but it is ok to steep it in very hot water for 15-20 minutes to bring out effects. True or false
5)Cooking kratoom in recipes is fine and does not affect the effects. True or false.
6)Adding honey at high heat temps is fine as long as you do not boil the kratom in the mixture. true or false.
7)Dairy products taken with kratom lessens the effects. True or false
8) Many people make smoothies and add kratom and it works great (I assume smoothies with dairy?) True or false
9)There are no foods that actually cover/mask the flavor. true or false
10) Kratom is enhanced by taken with citrus juice like lemon or oranges. true or false
11)You can simmer water, honey, lemon and kratom down slowly to evaporate most liquids and get a thick fair tasting syrup that condenses into a small shot - and it works fine. true or false?
12)Green maylay has slowest onset time of any strain - but lasts longest. true or false
13) Mixing different strains can sometimes "cancel out" the benefits of one or both strains. true or false?
14)What is the best strain for pain, energy and some euphoric relaxation for people with neurological issues (the brain receptors that are affected by the compounds in kratom that cause specifically the euphoria do assist with muscle spasms and tremor issues for people with MS and Parkinsons, we have as a group of patients found this to be very true in our group of informal research of 14 patients) What would be the best strains for a) relaxation b) euphoria c)pain control d) energy.
I know I have asked a load of questions - Sorry... I am a MS patient who has found great help with kratom. As a result I have 13 additional MS patients who are participating in an informal study among ourselves replacing all narcotic pain meds with kratom. I am the most experienced of the group - yet I am still learning (or attempting to learn) how to best assist others to get the great results that I have experienced, and that have given me a much better quality of life. I feel that I owe it to the community of people with neuro diseases in my support group who are willing to try to make this work for them to be as informed and safe as I can while we attempt this. We are trying different vendors (7 so far) and several strains and combinations. We are looking at different ways to make it easier to use. We are all keeping a daily journal with food intake, rating how we feel at different intervals before and after kratom doses each day. Monitoring and recording vital signs daily, weight weekly, etc. I am not a Dr (nor do I play one on tv -haha) but am simply attempting to assist and "lead" a motivated group of people in this informal study who are open to kratom as an option. I have done so much research yet have found so many conflicting statements that I am hoping some of you wonderful people will tell me what you think about the above questions and share any info that you are comfortable sharing with me so that I can do my best for these folks. I am open to any advice that you want to share and I truly do appreciate it. Thanks for the forum, it has really helped.
Jo
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Re: How does heating affect kratom? I am finding conflicting info 1 year 3 months ago #8754

  • Mayeu
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Well i iam not a chemist, and i dont know that much about this plant
but i do know that Kratom is a very diverse plant.

There are several different chemicals that are responsible for pain relief,
and other effects.
Someof those chemicals have not been studied at all
So, they dont understand exactly how Kratom works.

That said, some active chemicals do not respond well to heat.

So it is possible that if you make a tea out of it, you are reducing the effects
of some of the chemicals.
It is also possible that some of the chemicals will not activate without heat.
So unfortunately,i cant be that much help.

Personally,it seems to work for me better
if i use warm/hot water, but not boiling.
I normally just throw it down though, without heat at all.

I can tell you i cant see any reason adding honey would help,
if you raise the temps.

As far as diary products,
Kratom,and many alkaloids do much better
if there are certain fatty acids to help them activate.
Rather than dairy,i use Omega-3 fatty acids.
(or olive oil)
Seems to work for me.

Mixing different strains can sometimes "cancel out" the benefits
- very doubtful.
Last Edit: 1 year 3 months ago by Mayeu.
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Re: How does heating affect kratom? I am finding conflicting info 1 year 3 months ago #8756

  • cweeks11
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I do not claim to be an expert, only using medicinally for 2 yrs. First started with smoking, then steeping tea method,then a made cookies, and found out by just ingesting, was the most effective for me. Borneo Red Vein crushed leaf is my love. I started with a sample pack which was purchased from our certified vendors list, and from there made my desicion. The next order I would like to try the Red Thai crushed, that is one that I have not sampled, as well as the extract.
I'm almost afraid the extract may be too strong... Anyway, after a couple years of experimentation I am still learning.
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Re: How does heating affect kratom? I am finding conflicting info 1 year 3 months ago #8772

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Thanks so much to those who took the time to respond so far! It IS very appreciated!
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Re: How does heating affect kratom? I am finding conflicting info 1 year 3 months ago #8774

  • snaggletooth
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Hi n2thefire. I'll give you my opinions based on what Ive noticed over the years if I can...

1) Ive tried steeping it and I found minor differences in results which could just have been my own confirmation bias, but there did seem to be some elevation in stimulating effects and a lesser emphasis on sedation (even when using a sedating strain) when I steeped it in hot water. Not sure if anyone else agrees with this?

2) As with above, I saw just minor changes in effect.... apart from the fact it makes your house stink lol.

3) I would have to say this is false

4) Pretty much answered this one I suppose

5) Have to admit Ive never cooked with kratom, but i have eaten shortly before taking it and the results definitely werent as good. Guess this stands to sense with food slowing the absorption in your stomach. This might then be the same when its cooked with. The additional food element taking the edge off things.

6) Not sure what youve read about adding honey? Many add it to their tea (to kill that delicious taste lol) so Im sure it should be fine. Im one of the few who find the taste of real honey gross too so I havent added bad to worse yet :sick:

7) Ive washed mine down (Im pretty much always a toss and wash man) with milk drinks and the results were the same. Its true there are many things which require fat included to get going though. I dont think kratom is one of them though.

8. Never tried a smoothie with it yet, but generally the web seems to say this is a positive way of taking it. Ive read very few negatives about this form of consumption.

9) Lol. Many are going to disagree with me here.... but.... TRUE TRUE TRUE!!! Gawd kratom stinks. You can read a million declarations online that apple sauce to cocoa will hide it but nope.... not for me! :blink:

10) Ive never felt anything amplified my kratom intake. Again there are a ton of reports out there possibly saying different, but confirmation bias is certainly something which needs considered about it all. I mean what makes coffee stronger? More coffee/caffeine maybe? Thats about all.

11) Yeah this should work (and again your house will reek), but isnt a teaspoon washed down with fruit juice just as easy? And muchhhh quicker.

12) Onset of any strain is pretty much always the same for me. The only exception has been stem and vein, it was a little slower.

13) This is both possible and not. Hard to say really. Taking equal measures of say Thai and Borneo can give you more of a stimulating effect, but then even Borneo can stimulate at times so youre adding some stimulation to more stimulation so its not entirely surprising. That said, you could also mix the same two strains and find the stimulation is reduced because of the Borneo taking the edge off. I guess you can see why this is hard to put a definitive answer on then.

14) This type of question gets asked all the time here and Im not sure there is one answer for everyone, you really just have to experiment and see what works for you. Personally I dont find that kratom kills pain at all for me. It works on the opiate receptors but real opioids actually dont kill a lot of pain, they just make you more able mentally to cope with it (there is a difference). As for which strains are stimulating and which are sedating... most will agree that the two ends of the spectrum are Borneo at the sedation end and Thai at the stimulating end. Around the middle you would probably have Green malay. Again, this is based on my own experience and largely from what you will read elsewhere. In case you didnt know too, Borneo might also be known as Bali, or possibly Indo when sold by some vendors. Whether there are minor differences in some of these strains between vendors is debatable, but you will still find them mostly all sedating. Thai will pretty much always be stimulating and (in my experience) it can be labelled with the term "Maeng Da" which Ive never held much love for as a name, due to it just being confusing for buyers like myself.

;)
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
Last Edit: 1 year 3 months ago by snaggletooth.
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Re: How does heating affect kratom? I am finding conflicting info 1 year 3 months ago #8815

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Thanks Snaggletooth! VERY helpful! Ok, so here is what I tried...
I made some Cajun candy fudge... while it was still hot and mixable - I mixed in 4gm of green maylay into what would be a small portion size. I made several of these little bite sizes. I am happy to report that they are yummy and the effects of the kratom are same as toss and wash in my experience. I used semisweet chocolate chips, pecans, a dash of cayenne pepper, a can of condensed milk and a stick of butter. Melted those items together mixing the whole time. Then I poured into ice cube tray to make cubes for bite sizes. I added the kratom at that time and stirred it into the cubes with a toothpick. I let it all set up and get firm. (also spray the ice cube tray with PAM or a butter flavored cooking spray)
When they were firm little fudge squared I popped them out.
I would caution that anyone with kids in the house might be careful with this method.
Also... this is just for a treat... if I ate these more than once a week - I have a feeling that all of my clothes would shrink.
Perhaps not the healthiest method - but was fun to try and I was surprised by the outcome.
I am trying some other ways too - and will keep anyone interested posted. Many of the people trying to use kratom in my MS group are having trouble taking it, so I am experimenting a bit.
Last Edit: 1 year 3 months ago by n2thefire.
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Re: How does heating affect kratom? I am finding conflicting info 1 year 3 months ago #8825

  • snaggletooth
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Lol I think that's the most delicious sounding recipe for kratom I've ever read. Mmm.... Kraaaatom lol :P
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Re: How does heating affect kratom? I am finding conflicting info 1 year 3 months ago #8833

  • Ray Dolor
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n2thefire wrote:
Thanks Snaggletooth! VERY helpful! Ok, so here is what I tried...
I made some Cajun candy fudge... while it was still hot and mixable - I mixed in 4gm of green maylay into what would be a small portion size. I made several of these little bite sizes. I am happy to report that they are yummy and the effects of the kratom are same as toss and wash in my experience. I used semisweet chocolate chips, pecans, a dash of cayenne pepper, a can of condensed milk and a stick of butter. Melted those items together mixing the whole time. Then I poured into ice cube tray to make cubes for bite sizes. I added the kratom at that time and stirred it into the cubes with a toothpick. I let it all set up and get firm. (also spray the ice cube tray with PAM or a butter flavored cooking spray)
When they were firm little fudge squared I popped them out.
I would caution that anyone with kids in the house might be careful with this method.
Also... this is just for a treat... if I ate these more than once a week - I have a feeling that all of my clothes would shrink.
Perhaps not the healthiest method - but was fun to try and I was surprised by the outcome.
I am trying some other ways too - and will keep anyone interested posted. Many of the people trying to use kratom in my MS group are having trouble taking it, so I am experimenting a bit.

GAWD....that sounds delicious!
You can call me Ray.
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Re: How does heating affect kratom? I am finding conflicting info 1 year 3 months ago #8844

  • n2thefire
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Haha thanks! Leave it to a Cajun girl to try to make it yummy.
I will say that tho I used milk chocolate chips - the taste it a bit more like dark chocolate in the finished project I guess because you still get a tiny bit of the bitterness - however none of the icky flavor.
Here is one more that I tried that isn't half bad. I blended fresh strawberries, added condensed milk stirred in the 4gm kratom and froze into little ice cube squares, Honestly, the taste is a good bit like a rich strawberry ice cream but still a bit grainy and not as good as the chocolate fudge one. I think the texture of the pecan pieces in the chocolate took my attention away from the kratom texture... or maybe the fact that I am mad for chocolate. Next one that I plan to try is another frozen one - lemonade ice squares... trying to work with a citric acid, yet make it sweet and easy to take. I will let you know.
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Re: How does heating affect kratom? I am finding conflicting info 1 year 3 months ago #8854

  • LW111
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thanks for sharing :) that does sound good... I struggle with the texture it always makes me gag
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